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This is a fan journal for The Outsiders book, movie, TV series and actors.
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You may see me comment here under my other username, [info]carmanah.
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"The Outsiders" Journal
For discussion of 'The Outsiders' book, movie, series and actors.
marsonfire
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Pics from my fic
A few people know that I used some of the extras in the Outsiders as inspiration for characters.

Come and see them! )


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marsonfire
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Characters
Here is some background on some of my characters.

Name - Ruby Ann Merril
Born - February 2 1948 at 3:33am in Lubbock, TX. (Aquarius with Scorpio rising)
Grew Up - All over Oklahoma and Texas mostly. The last 2 years she'd been living in Abilene on a small ranch.
Family - Father Frank (1927) who's a long haul truck driver (freight). Her mother Pauline (1928) died from tuberculosis when Ruby was 12.
Extended Family - Uncle Donald (1924) was killed at Guadalcanal, he was with the US Army's 25th Infantry Division. He won a Silver Star postumously. No children.
Uncle Charles (1921) served in WW2 at Iwo Jima with the US Marines. Awarded a Bronze Star. Married before the war, one son. Lives outside of Tulsa with his 2nd wife. Abusive.
Cousin William (1941), called Buck by everyone. Doesn't get along much with his dad, his mom lives in Oklahoma City and he sees her occasionally.

Read more about Ruby )

Here is a little info on some of the OMCs I've created for the Outsiders world. [info]artemis_rex did this too, so here are mine:

Bill Pearce
Age: 21 (1966); born April 30 1945 (Taurus)
Appearance: 6'2" tall, dark hair with a bit of a wave to it, grey eyes, well built, long legs, looks like he's in his 30s
Personality: steady, solid and dependable, which is why he's Tim's right hand man. Gets things done, respects Tim despite their difference in age and vice versa, good fighter, he doesn't get overly uptight when things go bad. Doesn't want to lead, prefers to be the background guy and gets respect that way. Doesn't like authority for the most part because of the superior attitude that usually comes with it. He's chatty, especially with girls and has a good temperament. But he knows the business end of a gun, can handle a knife well and isn't a slouch at fighting. He won't hesitate to jump in a brawl if he feels like it, even if he's not involved. Overall, he's the perfect partner in crime.
Odds and Ends: His sister is Kathy Pearce, Two-Bit's on/off girlfriend. He has a so-so relationship with Two-Bit; it's better when Two-Bit isn't dating Kathy.

Dale Barnes
Age: 19 (1966); June 10 1947 (Cancer)
Appearance: Tall (6'2"), very lanky, looks long and lean. Not well built, kind of skinny. Mustache, receding short dark hair (there's not enough to grease)
Personality: A bit weak willed and weak minded. He wants to be part of the inner circle, but isn't. Isn't really in Shepard's gang, but his younger brother is and it bothers him that he's not as tough or cool or respected. He's a likeable guy, a little dorky even. Kind of the greaser everyone bugs. He figured they'd grow out of it as he got older, but they didn't lol. He isn't much of a fighter, but is eager to fight to prove himself, yet he doesn't go looking for fights. He's smart, he knows the score, but he still can't help but want to change his position in the group. He kind of floats from group to group, doesn't have a real gang behind him.
Odds and Ends: Younger brother is Adam Barnes from the Shepard gang.

Pete Malcolm
Age: 16 (1966); August 1 1950 (Leo)
Appearance: Sandy blond hair, green eyes, thin, kind of pale. Decent build, kind of sinewy look to him. Considering good looking.
Personality: A loud mouth with a big laugh. Is mouthy to everyone and gets in trouble for it. He gets along well with Curly, Carl Hamilton and friends. He is girl crazy and well known as a love 'em and leave 'em type. Not a great fighter, but he has access to a lot of weapons (dad's an avid collector) so people stay away from him. He has a car, he's good with engines, loves to race. Basically likes anything fast and wild. Tim considers him a bit of a loose cannon, but hasn't had any trouble with him.
Odds and Ends: Was clobbered on the head and in the hospital for over a week with a bad concussion from mouthing off to a Tiber Street Tiger. Tim didn't consider it anything he had to retaliate against, because he knows Pete brings it on himself.

And other guys I've mentioned - Tony Cochrane (dating Elaine), Eddie Demarco (a 17 year-old greaser without a gang who mouths off when he's drunk; he likes Elaine).

And a few OFCs:

Carolyn West
Age: 19 (1966); born Nov 24 1947 (Sagittarius)
Appearance: curly blonde hair and blue eyes. Looks a bit like a china doll; bow lips, long lashes. She's tall (about 5'7"). Quite pretty until she opens her mouth.
Personality: She is seen as a trampy greaser girl by some. She floats from guy to guy and has a thing for guys with great reps, like the gang leaders. She has a thing for Tim and will settle for being a regular one night stand if she can't be his girlfriend. She'd rather be his girlfriend, but he'd rather her not. She knows how Tim sees her and tries not to be bothered by it. She's friends with Sylvia and when she was going with Dallas, Carolyn always wanted to double with Tim. She doesn't hang out at Buck's that much. She's a big drinker and she has quite a temper. She isn't above throwing things or calling names or insulting whoever she's with in the heat of the moment, but always comes back with a sweet apology. Tim calls her Carrie on occasion, which she hates and he knows it. She's known Tim for over 6 years, they met in school. She has a stepfather that abuses her and she tries not to stay home often.
Odds and Ends: She has a younger sister (16) named Jenny.

Tricia Baxter
Age: 18 (1966); born April 2 1948 (Aries)
Appearance: long straight light brown hair that's pretty thin. She's thin herself, and looks like she'd blow away in a strong wind, but is very strong and scrappy. Wears a lot of dark eye liner.
Personality: She doesn't date around a lot, but she still has a wild reputation; no one knows whether it's earned or not. She dated Tim before he got arrested in Aug 1965 and ended up being transfered to McAlester. Tim refers to her a trainwreck. She is super jealous and loves to get in verbal fights, both with whoever she's seeing and other girls. Tim thinks she's headed for disaster, and since dating her, doesn't want to touch her with a ten foot pole. She went after Angel when Tim broke it off with her, she got in fights with Carolyn when she heard she and Tim were together, yet she has no feelings for Tim at all. She actually has a thing for Curly, but she's too nervous to even talk to him. She has a hard look to her. Deep down she's pretty insecure and isn't the tramp she's made out to be. Tim knows it, but he's done nothing to dispel rumours about her.

I've also mentioned Tony's girlfriend Elaine (who likes Eddie Demarco and thinks her boyfriend doesn't notice), Pamela Kingston (who has a huge thing for Jimmy Lewis) and Debbie, a girl that Curly likes.

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marsonfire
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OFC doesn't equal Mary Sue
My biggest pet peeve in fan fiction is not Mary Sue. It is people who assume that any original female character (OFC) is a Mary Sue.

Mary Sue isn't who she is because she interacts with the male characters in your fandom. Mary Sue isn't who she is because she's the only girl around. Mary Sue isn't who she is because the author didn't use a canon female character. Mary Sue isn't who she is because she falls for a canon character.

Mary Sue is a Mary Sue because she's perfect. She's beautiful, funny, tough, adventurous, intelligent, talented and unusual. By the end of the story, everyone will be in love with her. If they aren't in love with her, or don't think she's amazing, they'll hate her with a passion, causing many fights and arguments where she'll show off said toughness and humour...before falling for her, even if it is secretly. Mary Sue has this amazing talent of making every character act out of character all the time, and also is great at turning the whole story into one about her and screw the canon characters - they become characters you could lift out of the story and it wouldn't affect anything. Mary Sue is the main character of her fic, not the canon characters.

That is not an OFC. An OFC is someone the canon characters interact with, but she has faults and foibles, she learns something from the canon characters. She isn't perfect, not everyone will like her. She may not be able to get out of circumstances without help. She makes mistakes. She's human.

Now, just because the OFC gets to date/sleep with/kiss/whatever a canon character, does not make her a Mary Sue - unless every other canon character is cursing the heaven's that she's not with them. The most notable thing about an OFC is that she helps us see other parts of the canon characters - she is not the main point of the story. She main have a huge role, but in the end she's helped us learn something about the canon characters.

I notice in Outsiders and A-Team fan fic that people will only accuse an OFC of being a Mary Sue if that character is close in age with the main canon characters. If you create a Mary Sue who's the mom of a canon character - chances are no one is going to say or notice it at all. Why? Because people assume that romance/relationship = Mary Sue, and they assume that's one characteristic of a Mary Sue. It may be...but there are so many more and you have to have more than one Mary Sue characteristic to be a Mary Sue.

You rarely (if ever) see a OMC (original male character) being accused of being a Marty Stu/Gary Stu (the male counterpart to Mary Sue). People assume that Mary Sue is who she is because she's female, but that isn't true either. A Mary/Gary exists because of their qualities, not their sex. A Marty Stu can exist just as easily, but people are way more willing to let that slide and ignore it. Same with ignoring a canon character turning into a Mary Sue or Gary Stu - people assume that as long as the character is canon, they can't be "sue'd". Totally untrue - the A-Team fandom gets a lot of "Saint Face" where he becomes Mr. Perfect, and in the Outsiders Soda is dangerously close to it in the book, so it wouldn't be hard for a fan fic author to send him sprawling into Gary Stu land.

Both of my fandoms have a distinct lack of female canon characters. The Outsiders has Cherry as the only one written about - others are mentioned by name and that's it. The A-Team has Amy and Tawnia as canon female characters - others only lasted one episode as a client. So to have the canon characters interact with someone different, especially someone female, many times you need to create an OFC to do it. Because this is a common practice due to the nature of the canon material, and the authors (for the most part) are women/girls, most people assume that any OFC is really the author wanting to be in the story.

In some cases (particularly in Outsiders fic) that's very true and you can find some awful fic with Mary Sues. BUT, there are also people who bring in great OFCs that really add something to our knowledge of the CANON characters...which is the aim of any original character. To discount any story because there's an OFC is a real shame, because I think people miss out on great fics.

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marsonfire
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Girls in Outsiders world
For fan fic writers and readers out there, how do you feel about the portrayal of girls and women in the Outsiders fan fic world?

To me it seems there are only a handful of ways that girls are used in fan fic:

1. The sister - usually of the Curtis', but sometimes of the others. Usually NOT a canon sister (ie Angela Shepard, Two-Bit's mentioned kid sis)
2. The cousin - Of any of the characters, only Steve and Dally have cousins mentioned in canon.
3. The girlfriend - Of mostly any, but usually Soda, Dally etc. Soda (Sandy), Dally (Sylvia), Steve (Evie) and Two-Bit (Kathy) all had canon mentioned girlfriends.
4. New girl moves to town - This category is evenly divided between good stories and Mary Sue ones.

In the book the only girls focused on are Socs, but for the most part they are only interacting with the guys because extraordinary circumstances have forced them to. On an everyday basis they would have no contact. So rightly so, most fan fic writers don't make new characters Socs, since it would be hard to make the group interact.

Pony mentions he isn't much interested in girls in the novel, but also mentions he has lots of friends that are middle class (yet no one every writes about these middle class friends). So I'm surprised that having a girl classmate for Pony as a friend never really gets used often (and we know from That Was Then, This Is Now canon Pony ends up dating Cathy a year after The Outsiders, a fairly middle class girl). Girlfriends are iffy, especially if you want them really drawn into the Outsiders world. I don't think that Sandy and Evie would be involved with the gang's everyday life. I think the girls were almost a distraction from them. So a girl they just hang out with would be rather different from a girl they dated. Unfortunately this leads to a lot of female characters being tough like the guys so they fit in, so you get a lot of cookie cutter female characters.

Which use of girls do you find the easiest to accept? Which insertion of girls bothers you? What types of girls do you think they had in their lives?

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